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Montana
Montana
July 28th, 2023 4:00 AM

Trying new things means growing as a person

Khaisz
Khaisz
July 28th, 2023 4:10 AM

I never understood why men see cooking as unmasculine, I myself as a man see it as the 2nd most masculine thing after hunting for the food yourself.

Nothing more masculine then going down to the sea, catch a fish or several and then grill it on a grill with some potato while drinking beer.

CazzT
CazzT
July 28th, 2023 7:57 AM
Reply to  Khaisz

“I never understood why men see cooking as unmasculine”
Men don’t see it as “unmasculine”, nor have they ever seen it as such. I’ve been seeing this a lot recently from the leftover women circles. The same group that thinks men are “intimidated” by them having a career. It’s gaslighting at its finest.

Morningstar
Morningstar
July 28th, 2023 6:56 PM
Reply to  CazzT

Those are both things which do, in fact, happen. It’s a holdover from women not being employed in most jobs in the first place, expected to be completely dependent on their men. So all home chores, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, became heavily associated with femininity. And so too it became associated with masculinity to have a career.
It’s not gaslighting, it’s history.

CazzT
CazzT
July 29th, 2023 8:21 AM
Reply to  Morningstar

What things happen? No man has ever said cooking is “unmasculine” and no man has ever said he’s “intimidated” by a woman’s success or career.

You’re actually engaging in the same gaslighting with your post. None of what you said is true.

David
David
July 29th, 2023 1:41 PM
Reply to  CazzT

Feel like it’s more a things that’s reminded to the jocks than anything. Most guys didn’t give a crap when I was in school a couple decades ago now, but the ones that did need to be reminded were the clowns that thought they mattered because they were on the football team. (One that consistently was terrible, making it even more baffling)

Meanwhile, we’ve had how many male professional chefs? Heck I remember watching Ratatouille the other day, and Collette complaining about cooking being a male dominated industry.

Maybe it’s a regional thing to some degree.

Neil
Neil
July 28th, 2023 8:05 AM
Reply to  Khaisz

Sometimes it is fear or shame – if they don’t know how or are bad at it, they can hide it by claiming it’s “not their job”.
Sometimes it is pride or arrogance – they don’t want to do it, so claim it is “beneath them”.

What’s worse to me are those who denigrate cooking for the family as being beneath a man’s dignity, but that being a professional chef is respectable and only for men. The hypocrisy and arrogance are just staggering.

I really like this quote from Taran Wanderer by Lloyd Alexander.

“I’ve heard men complain of doing woman’s work, and women complain of doing man’s work,” she added, fastening her bony thumb and forefinger on Gurgi’s ear and marching him to a stool beside Taran, “but I’ve never heard the work complain of who did it, so long as it got done!”

https://quotefancy.com/quote/1996301/Lloyd-Alexander-I-ve-heard-men-complain-of-doing-woman-s-work-and-women-complain-of-doing

https://fantasyliterature.com/reviews/taran-wanderer/

Torbjörn Larsson
July 29th, 2023 3:55 AM
Reply to  Neil

But that is personal, or possibly as Quiet Lurker writes among some examples of cultures with gendered roles. Not characterizing the sex trait/gender roles in toto.

Nice quote!

CazzT
CazzT
July 29th, 2023 8:23 AM
Reply to  Neil

“What’s worse to me are those who denigrate cooking for the family as being beneath a man’s dignity”
No one does this.

Torbjörn Larsson
July 30th, 2023 1:58 AM
Reply to  CazzT

That would be hard to put in evidence. Denigration is a universal, no matter what matter.

Dorje Sylas
Dorje Sylas
July 28th, 2023 4:13 AM

*taps mic* Ahem, for your consideration. Clark Kent. In a maid outfit. Cooking Lois Lane’s favorite meal.

Uhl
Uhl
July 31st, 2023 8:24 AM
Reply to  Dorje Sylas

That happened. “New adventures of Lois and Clark.” Then again, one of Superman’s titles is “World’s strongest boy scout” and the scouts do get a cooking badge.

The Aussie Bloke
The Aussie Bloke
July 28th, 2023 4:59 AM

I’ve said this before, and I shall say it again.

If you are a woman, you should know how to cook.

If you are a man, you should know how to cook.

If you are a functioning adult, you should know how to bloody cook!

Countrymage
July 28th, 2023 4:49 PM

It’s the functioning adult part that trips most people before they can learn to cook.

DemonoftheDeep
DemonoftheDeep
July 28th, 2023 11:25 PM
Reply to  Countrymage

(I know I am ranting, it’s nothing against you, or even your comment, I’m just sick of hearing people around me say that, and I usually can’t just tell them what I say here, for various reasons. I just need to say this SOMEWHERE)

I have an official government document stating I am very much NOT a functioning adult (neither mentally, nor physically), but I can (and have):
-Cook many, many main dishes (from something as simple as scrambled eggs, to complicated stuff like Beef wellington)
-Make several side dishes (salads/soups/bread)
-Make several types of dessert (including, but not limited to: cakes, pies, cookies, jams, puddings, candy)

No, I was never a professional cook, nor have I ever trained to be one. It’s just stuff i picked up how to do from family/friends/acquaintances/the internet over the course of my life.

All of this to say:
Not being a functioning adult is no excuse to not know how to cook, at least not nowadays.

Torbjörn Larsson
July 29th, 2023 4:18 AM
Reply to  DemonoftheDeep

This is a fuzzy field. The OP reads like suggesting maturity. In other cases we read about cooking as a an everyday entrance to learn how to learn among even mature incompetents. (Those who are so incompetent – having never acquired the trainable ability to learn – that they can’t judge their own incompetence. Examples abound.) I’ve used it as an example myself, and I’m happy that whatever context has sourced such a document doesn’t involve any of that.

I.e. cooking involves route learning and elements of planning, scheduling et cetera while it gives you “objective” (for your own tastes) feedback if you are doing it correctly or not. The degree of difficulty can be increased from cleaning vegetables to world class cooking (at which end people learn how to cook for a wider set of tastes and at high quality).

This is sort of orthogonal to maturity, but at the same time there is a correlation between maturing and learning. I doubt neuroscientists know what brain-body parts are involved in general, what plasticity can rescue functional absence or loss at various stages et cetera. The Dunning-Kruger incompetents are still a questionable area, as well – does the statistics show that it is purported to show, how do the putative problems occur, et cetera.

Torbjörn Larsson
July 29th, 2023 4:24 AM

I should add that during learning (a new field) we are all functionally incompetents until we get “the hang of it” (enough context to start riddling the problems and how some are solved – say, for biking how to keep the balance until the velocity helps stabilization).

Torbjörn Larsson
July 29th, 2023 4:32 AM

Typo: rote learning.

The Aussie Bloke
The Aussie Bloke
July 29th, 2023 10:59 PM

Wow, this blew up.

“Functioning” adult was meant as an out for those who posses physical or mental conditions that are inhibitive/prohibitive to being able/learning how to cook (I hasten to add that not all impairments affect this matter, as DemonoftheDeep demonstrates above).

Whilst learning as an adult is certainly one interpretation (and something that occurs far too frequently), my stance is that one should learn how to cook (if only the basics) prior to adulthood, to avoid having to learn the hard way when one is no longer living with family.

Torbjörn Larsson
July 30th, 2023 2:12 AM

@Aussie Bloke, we are in agreement on the cooking, I’m sorry if I read “maturity” into your age condition of the sentences.

[I should add, since it was discussed, that the terms “functioning” and “impairments” are more problematic to me. I think the current idea is to acknowledge that human traits have distributions (and factors like development, plasticity, rescue, training and environment makes it a dynamic situation). But that has nothing to do with the topic.]

hevensdragon
hevensdragon
July 28th, 2023 8:17 AM

Ive never heard any guy claim knowing how to cook is unmasculine, many who are just not interested or see it as tedious and would rather just have simple food, but never a aversion do masculinity. In my family the good cooks are all the guys, my mom and sisters are terrible, but dad meself and my brothers all are good cooks, my oldest brother goes all in with his smoker, ah that brisket.
Even extended family that trend hold true, a two uncles are even professional cooks.
I’ve heard this trope many time in shows and movies, but never seen a case of irl. The only thing close was school bullies mocking a guy for taking home ec, but I wont really count that as they would mock anything.

Torbjörn Larsson
July 28th, 2023 9:09 AM

I don’t know where cooking would be thought of unmasculine among men or unfeminine among women.

Cultures may vary though so perhaps that can explain what Michelle says. But hasn’t she access to wide cultural material!?

Quiet Lurker
Quiet Lurker
July 28th, 2023 9:45 AM

For those who are haven’t encountered this whole, “the kitchen is the woman’s domain not the man’s” kind of gender role expectation, it does in fact exist and is not just “gaslighting”.

Growing up in the US south (yeah… plenty of bleh), Sunday dinners at my grandmother’s place always involved all the women doing the cooking and cleaning after, with the men sitting on the couch and watching whatever sporting event of choice on the tv. The only exception was grilling. Men did the grilling. If it involved a stove, oven, or even just the prep work for the grill, then it was the women’s responsibility.

When I brought over my eventual husband, he helped in the kitchen with both cooking and cleaning. My grandmother and others tried to tell him he didn’t have to, reminding in so many words that he wasn’t supposed to be responsible for that. But he didn’t care, has always enjoyed cooking, and eventually they didn’t bother trying to discourage him, even if it was still obvious that most didn’t really think he was supposed to be there rather than the couch with the other men.

If you haven’t encountered this kind of gendered expectation of roles and places in the home, honestly congrats. That’s really awesome to be reminded that plenty of people didn’t grow up with that kind of hierarchy impressed upon them. But I promise, it does exist.

(Also, it was never really expressed directly as cooking is not masculine, just that it’s not the man’s place to do so.)

hevensdragon
hevensdragon
July 28th, 2023 11:27 PM
Reply to  Quiet Lurker

But even there its not men treating it as unmasculine its women telling them to leave it to them. In all instances of this I’ve seen men have no aversion, it always women kicking them out of the kitchen.

Belvarius
Belvarius
July 28th, 2023 10:43 AM

Well Phil is more on the cute side than the big burly manly man side, and Lien does like cute. Remember her asking Nami for those Scottish Fold style cat ears? So that probably explains her comment. And if Kate is happy with Phil the way he is and Phil is too then that’s what matters.

Timothy Oloughlin
Timothy Oloughlin
July 28th, 2023 11:08 AM

I can’t speak for everyone, but all the men I know prefer to cook at home. A lot of guys take pride in their ability to provide food for their families are usually the ones who cook the meals at home

Project_Demise
Project_Demise
July 28th, 2023 10:48 PM

I can’t see how anyone can say cooking isn’t masculine. There are so many celebrity chefs who are men and make the big bucks that it boggles the mind.

Lilith Rose
Lilith Rose
July 29th, 2023 7:18 PM

1. I agree, more men need to be unmasculine. Unmasculine men are far hotter than masculine mine.

2. There’s nothing unmasculine about cooking. Just look at Gorden Ramsey.

3. Everyone belongs in kitchen. Kitchen has food.

Lilith Rose
Lilith Rose
July 30th, 2023 2:21 PM
Reply to  Sage

1 – 100% agree! Smash gender norms into dust!

2. Yep, cultural stereotypes are weird.

3. So my 100% + your 100%, we’re at 200%! Run, it’s gonna blow!!!!

Muninn_Crow
Muninn_Crow
July 29th, 2023 8:19 PM

Never understood that premise. Everyone I’ve met has always been amazed and impressed that I ca cook, and cook well. I’ve never once encountered someone who considered it girly to cook.
Some of the other comments here imply that masculinity is somehow wrong. There’s nothing bad with masculinity in itself, but the societal stereotypes built around it. There are plenty of “ultra masculine” men who know how to cook, or make careers of it.
Not a complaint, I just find it weird. World’s a weird place. 😛

Montana
Montana
July 31st, 2023 4:04 AM
Reply to  Sage

it’s 4 am, maybe i’ll survive after using a quarter for a continue

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